“Tasmanians for a better future” don’t have to reveal their identity so why should Tamanian Times contributors have to?  Look closely for the Tamar Ridge glass in the advertisement!

Come to think of it “Tasmanians for a better future” and “Building futures in Tasmania” sound quite similar.

The issue with minority governments is about actualities, rather than theory. The ALP-Green accord was a recent example of problems that coalitions may cause.

The issue of course is that coalitions between ‘like’ parties such as Libs and the Nats work becuase they are basically the same.

However, in Tas, the Greens, ALP, and the Libs are so very different from one another that a coalition hwoever constructed is difficult to manage.

The complicating issue is the small number of lower house seats: 25. With 13 providing the majority, (say the int eg where 12 + 1 forms gov’t on the basis of the coalition) that 1 member has quite incredible power and default influence afforded to them to keep them in the coalition.

Website rules vs TV rules I guess.

The other disappointing thing is that those people who are afraid to reveal their identity run and hide whilst the election is on.

The number of comments on TT seems to have plummetted in the last week or so.

In some few instances there are people who are subject to bullying and harassment, that would understandably be nervous about putting their details with their comments on this site.

Then of course there are those who like to harass others in the comfort of anonymity.

How do you resolve that one with a rule?

Toby Rowallan
GREENS candidate for Denison
4/411 Nelson Road
Mt Nelson 7007

Well I haven’t seen the advertising, but you don’t have to be a pulp mill scientist to work out what’s going on here.

http://www.themercury.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,18308237%5E3462,00.html

You know I really love life. Just when I really think I’ve seen it all, along comes something new to give me a giggle.

Is it true that the next round of advertising will feature the “Grim Reaper” doing a job on those who are connected with minority government?

Will the transgressors be cast down a pulp mill chimney stack and be turned into Dim Sims while those who vote for majority government bounce along on fluffy white clouds sipping champers while nymphs and Adonis’ wave palm fronds and polish grapes?

This is truly a special show for special mates…nay all Tasmanians

Signed Mr X
Still at 40 Kayena Rd
Kayena

I am all for discouraging anonymous comment on this website. The comments section of TT has been polluted of late by anonymous contributions submitted and owned by God knows who.

They justify their lack of courage with the weak excuse that are harrassed and persecuted by the green baddies. For all we know many of these comments may originate from one person.

Election time may prove to be rather refreshing on TT?

Rick Pilkington
69 Beach Road
Gravelly Beach

Rick, this site probably has more green-leaning anons than contra-green anons.

The green-leaning anons offer much the same line of excuses for anonymity (if they even bother to explain it at all), and similar difficulties apply to trying to work out whether single posters are using multiple usernames.

Kevin Bonham, 410 Macquarie St, South Hobart.

I take a different tack than Rick; Surely it’s the message that matters, not who sent it?

Are you telling me, an idea or thought that may promote discussion on TT that may in turn jog some grey matter in our pollies (of what ever persuasion ) should be ignored just because its anonymous?

Surely dissent doesn’t have to mean disloyalty as some CEOs and Managers would have us believe.

I think a healthy democracy should be able to accept a level of anonymous debate, as long as it’s not in the majority.

Dear Ed - I think I can make a non-political comment here. It has been requested that anonymous posters not submit comment of a political nature during the electoral period. I can certainly see the sense and probity in that. I do have to disagree with Rick Pilkington though about anonymous commentary on TT in general. It is a terrific aspect of the WWW that people can express themselves in virtual environments without fear of persecution or harassment. I can assure Rick P that my opinion is not owned by anyone, not the least my employer, but I am employed in an environment which would frown on any public commentary outside my area of work, and I have colleagues who hold different views to I on a range of issues and may well make my life somewhat difficult if they knew about my Super alterego.

The price of anonymity? No comments of a political nature through this electoral season. I can live with that. I don’t see myself as a political agitator of any particular persuasion anyway. What I want to champion is rationality - so if I see a post that is nonsense, biased, prejudiced, wrong-headed, mis-leading, insulting or silly, that is where I will like to comment in the future, subject to TT’s editorial policies and its mission “to be a forum of discussion and dissent”.

Yours in absence until after the election,

SA

Sad really that people live incognito to avoid persecution here in Tasmania.
This is not Sudan, Iran or the like.
F*** ‘em!!!
Stand up and be counted.
Life is too short to walk on your knees.
Mr X
Same place as before…black van gone.

Sad, rather, that so many choose to believe that some retribution will be visited upon them if they openly express their view. 

I have nothing to say on current political issues that would interest anyone who won’t have a smoke and drink with me, but I know so many who have a good intellect applied in this area and choose/vote to remain quiet.

We all know bullies and bullshitters - but real, true blue persecution?  Sad indeed that so many with nice angles and insights keep it all basically to their secure and private and uncommitted selves. It’s a wasted arrogance.

I welcome open debate from all sides in this election. However it’s highly mystifying to me as to why ‘Tasmanians for a Better Future’ wish to remain in the shadows attempting to influence the outcome, (does this sound like anyone we know)?

What is indisputible is that sections of this particular TV ad features scenes filmed at the Tamar Ridge Winery, (owned by everyone’s favoutite timber company) and the Tahune Air Walk.

Now could someone please answer for me if the filming took place with the consent of Gunns and Forestry Tasmania or not?

I find it hard to believe that a film crew could be smuggled onto the Airwalk or into a winery without somebody noticing even if site management was sloshed.  What’s that I hear my learned forestry friends saying?

Yes, I am involved with the Tasmanian Greens election campaign but that’s the whole point.

Everybody knows who the Greens are and what they stand for, like it or not.

This whole debacle reminds me of an earlier State Election (1989) when a group called Concerned Citizens for Tasmania ran a similar campaign which turned out to be nothing more than one politician attempting to destabilise the minority government.

This same person has used Corporate Communications, the PR company who produced the ads, before and so does the company he now works for. Hmmmm very interesting don’t you think?

P.S. The black van is now camped outside my place Dave, should I take them out a cup of Green tea?

There is a touch of irony with these “Tasmanians for a better future” ads. That is that during Election time Tasmania’s most powerful and privileged individuals are afforded the luxury of having a voice via our most influential medium without having to show a face or give a name.

Yet the ordinary folk of Tasmania are routinely asked to declare their true identities on websites and newspapers. I realise that this is nothing new and it has been this way for many a year during election time, but you still have to wonder what these people have to hide.

We now have Bob Cheek’s revelation about John Gay offering the former leader of the opposition “$10,000 no strings attached” and another 20k if he could guarantee the Libs would continue with the policy of supporting logging in old-growth forests and clearfelling,”. That looks to me like a conditional offer of money. In everday life most Australians, without fear or favour would routinely describe this as a bribe or inducement. But we can’t say that around here because we very much fear companies like Gunns who have the power and resources to drag us into court and make our lives hell!

The dictionary describes a bribe as a “benefit (as money) given, promised, or offered in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust - as an official or witness”.

Bob Cheek said:
“I didn’t see [the $20,000 offer] as a bribe because I was only leader of the opposition, and that’s how things are done in Tasmania,”.
And that’s how things are done in Tasmanian! What the hell is that meant to mean Bob?

And Bob, as for ‘only’ being the opposition leader, if John Gay didn’t see your political position as important he wouldn’t have offered your party the money!

And of course we now have Tasmania’s tough talking Labor and Liberal leaders Paul Lennon and Rene Hidding running from a debate with Green Party leader Peg Putt (who in a few weeks may assume a central role in the running of Tasmania). No doubt this is partly because Hidding and Lennon are genuinely afraid of being exposed by Putt who has consistently outperformed these two in Parliament.

We also know by their actions over the years that Labor and Liberal are desperate to exclude the Greens from participating in the parliament.

Are Lennon and Hidding afraid that if they consent to a debate with Greens party leader Peg Putt on prime time TV that the result will be greater legitimacy for the Tasmanian Greens.
No Doubt.

Surely if the Greens policies are a wacky as liberal/labor say, then shouldnt experienced parliamentarians Lennon and Hidding easily be able to expose them as thus. By Putt offering to debate on Prime Time TV isn’t she handing herself to them on a platter. Why then are Lennon and Hidding passing up this opportunity. To combat the Greens it looks like Lennon and Hidding seem determined to stick the old strategies of dodging debate, exclusion, fear politics and misrepresentation.

Sad.

Alas, another election sees same crusty old men in the same powerful places using the same old tactics.

It seems that fear and intimidation metered out from vested interests are affecting the people of Tasmania.

It is apparent however, that as the election draws nearer those people are coming out of their shelter and speaking out.

Come election day, in the privacy of the ballot box, those once intimidated can make a change.

I talk to many people on the street and those who are disenfranchised, disengaged “Liblabs” (perhaps the new coalition?) are seeking a change.

There are even Greens who seek change.

Roll on March 18.

P.S. They like a shot of Black Liquor in the morning and a glass or two of Dioxin Red after 4pm Wes.

Further to the comments on annonymity and the “black van”.  I am more than surprised by some of the comments of D. Groves and G Parsons.  Indeed I can relate to many of the comments of Super Annoyed regarding work-place pressures and public commentry.  Whilst the “black van” may be an amusing metaphor for some, to others in our community it has a great deal of reality.  Sure the persecution may not be overt, but many Tasmanians are both aware and have been subjected to fear campaigns and intimidation.  After all the reason why websites such as Tasmaniantimes and Crikey exist is largely because of the prevailing regime of supression.

When you live in a small community with few degrees of separation, few jobs and little public money around, many professionals are rightfully wary of sticking their heads above the parapet.  We all have families to think of, mortgages and bills to pay for - and governments know this.  Readers should refresh their memories of D. Obendorf’s excellent and accurate comments on the “Golden Handcuffs”.

It is sad that this situation exists and I hope it changes in the near future.  However in the interim, we should respect the right of all to protect their privacy.  We seem to forget that both this website and the causes of many subscribers, have greatly benefited from the power of anonymity - it is a critical component of democracy.

The TT debate to this point just about encapsulates the whole issue, and where else would you find it but here?

  I’d put Mr X, “Still at 40 Kayena Rd Kayena” , in for preselection to lead the TT minority group which can change this part of the world.

Humour and steadfastness cannot be underestimated or overlooked, and some valid sense helps too.

Campaign motto of “F*** ‘em” even has the right ring of depth and validity to challenge the present establishment for these times.

After the stoush round the back of the bike shed, we could then kick out Dave (if necessary) and all other head-kicking and mull over some rational argument like finding some worthies such as Eslake (perhaps?) to guide our governance.

Yeah Mr.non de plume some good points there.

My antipathy visa-vee anonmyous contributors to TT is more directed at those serial anon.contributors who will never be seen writing features yet tend to launch the most arrogant and abusive tirades at those who do. It takes courage to write a piece, despite its literary merits. As I alluded to in my previous post, when challenged these folks claim that they cant submit their names for fear of being persecuted by bad greenies.
C,mon. Those big powerful green terrorists. I find this hard to swallow.

Now writing anonymously because you fear retribution from a powerful body like big business or Government is another matter. In this case it is imperative that people are able to write anon. In this respect, I will always argue for the legal right for people to be able to write anonymously. It should not be legislated against. Yes it is one’s democratic right. I agree with all the points posters on this thread have made in favor of anon. writing. 
 
But if you are truly able to give your name I believe you should. To me it gives the debate more credibility. Hey, Fortune favours the brave!
However, I believe writing public comment anonymously puts one in a powerful position and gives one an advantage over others participating in the conversation. It should not be abused.

It is clear that people speaking out in Tasmania probably do have something to fear from our Govt. and powerful business interests (i.e professional, personal, legal retribution). I find that sad and infuriating at the same time, but refuse to be cowered by them. I am a Government employee and there are certain things I am very nervous about talking discussing. But hey, for me personally, I take the position that if they are going to sack me for having an certain poitical view or opinion, fuck them.

For everyone else, I say to you that if you are writing something in response to some polly or power interest who is/or likely playing dirty then they don’t deserve anything better than anonymity. Fuck them, they dont deserve to know your name. I undestand people taking that position.

Not everyone who writes anonymously neccessarily needs to though. There are stooges. How many beaureaucrats, pollies and their apparatchiks have written anon. on this site over the years? You see it all the time in newspapers and hear it on Talkback. It is a form of pollution.

Cheers
Rick Pilkington
69 Beach Road
Gravelly Beach
Paradise!

Rick P still seems to miss the point, or enjoys missing the point. I wouldn’t like to claim that I am under any potential fierce persecution if I went legit on TT. It is that I choose not to make myself a target of jibes or affrontery amongst my colleagues who, with poorly thought-through Greens leanings and lack of compassion for forestry workers, might make my life tiresome. Also, my employer may frown on my commentary, but, then, they might not even notice.

The problem comes down to is that I am, by some orders of magnitude, better known locally and nationally than many of the loopy folk that inhabit and post to this site. I admire them for being upfront with their identity, but, let’s face it, most of them don’t have much to lose by being public in their nuttiness.

I got involved with TT because I think it is interesting, makes use of new media and I thought it would be useful to point a point of view for further discussion. Plus, I am interested in injecting some rationality. I have had some vitriol fired my way from Ricky P and Jason L, but I can take that because I feel no need to take it personally, as I am impersonally involved in the discussion. I don’t think I have ever been rude, but I have challenged dodgy thinking.

On articles - plan to post some after electoral period is over. So Rick P can have further opportunities to get stuck in. I look forward to it.

SA

Right SA, so other people are using psuedonyms because they are ‘nutty’ while you use yours because you are ‘better known ... by some orders of magnitude’?

Your post completely ignores the arson attacks that have been committed against prominent Green supporter’s property in Tasmania, probably because it’s a pretty good explanation for the anonymity of some who post on this site.  In fact you seem to try and construct a strawman that is completely opposite to the reality that I live in - do your workmates really lack compassion for timber workers and possess Green leanings do they?  Is that a risk to your career or property, is it?

I doubt it.  I strongly doubt it.

Now who else do we know who loves straw men to distraction?

I hadn’t heard about arson attacks on Greens supporters - probably not surprising given our regular media outlets. This is why TT is a great resource - Jason, please send through more details. This kind of thuggery should not be tolerated and it saddens me to hear about it.

My preference for anonymity is not from any profound risk to me - it’s just to avoid further annoyance. Certainly no risk to my career or property, just to my peace of mind in my non-TT life. Yes, that sounds slack, because it is!! If there is a rule against anonymity on TT, I can live with that. I admitted I have admiration for the ‘real’ people who post, but it doesn’t mean I shouldn’t take nuttiness to task. And yes, I do work with people who would be happy for timber workers to lose their jobs so that forests are not felled (or plantations built), and I do discuss this with them. It’s all about priorities and values I suppose…..

I am just wonder, s.A., whether your comments regarding Greens leaning anti-forestry reflects your belief also about Greens’ policy on the forests.

Given the advertising currently underway from Forest Industries Association of Tasmania that is completely misleading, I want to make it clear that;
The Greens’ Forest Transition Strategy aims to create jobs (at least 700 more!) in the Forest industry in Tasmania.
It will protect the high value native old growth forests such as the Weld and the Styx.
It will create Specialty Timber Zones to cater for the high value trees such as Blackwood, Myrtle and so on to ensure that these are available as a renewable resource and that their value is so much greater.

It does NOT involve stopping all old-growth logging BUT it adds more veneer mills, laminated veneer lumber plywood plants, sawmills and engineered strand lumber plants.
Money would be provided for retraining, re-equipping and so forth for those areas affected by the loss of old growth forest wood.

There is sufficient plantation ALREADY growing in Tasmania to feed the demand for these industries, add value to our trees and not increase woodchipping, which is a constantly decreasing world market value.

The Greens’ will sustain our forest industry AND ensure jobs are not lost.
ANYTHING ELSE you hear is, well basically a lie.

Any questions, let me know.

Oh yes;
Government employees are normally forbidden by their employment contract to speak about issues directly relating to their place of employment in the public arena, unless of course they are employed as a media spokesperson.

This is the only reason why I will continue to support anonymous posts on this site.

I am personally aware of threats of disciplinary action taken against members of government departments due to perceived problems with information being given out.

But I have no time for someone who remains anonymous just because they feel more comfortable doing it.

Toby Rowallan
GREENS candidate for Denison
4/411 Nelson Road
Mt Nelson 7007

Dear Toby,

Given electoral period restrictions, which I endorse, you will just have to IMAGINE my response to your post.

SA

The politics of fear & negativity wins again in Tasmania! Another grubby, shadowy and dishonest election campaign again! Even independent political analysts agree on that.

Sadly, it appears that our island State needs yet another four years of ‘business-as usual’-government before more thinking Tasmanians realise what’s happening to our democracy.