Who says there is anything wrong with the public sphere? We now have a plethora of governing agencies - not two but three parties vying for state government - a redundant Legislative Council - multitudes of councils - god knows how many representative groups and political action groups - doctors for stuff other than affordable health - several Tamar action groups - wilderness societies - environment tasmania - conservation foundation - save ralphs bay - tasmanians for a better future - tasmanian land conservancy -  tasmania together - future tasmania - Tasmanians for this, that and the other. If your have a beef about anything on this island there are now likely to be several groups that you could join and act up in. I do have a significant objection to any kind of “Tasmanians for…” as there is no inidcation that they represent anything except for a minority and the disenfranchised. Maybe this group could be “Tasmanians pissed off because they are not in power”? Otherwise, the implication is that those opposed to whatever the Salamanca set says are somehow ‘unTasmanian’, a vacuous presumption that is as intellectually bereft as the assumption that any new ‘Tasmanians for…” group represents any more than their own self interest.

It’s a sad relection on Tasmania that there are so many community groups protesting against what the State Government is trying and force down our throats.

And PS - those against the pulpmill are in the majority Tomas.

Please take note.

I am going to start my own group - hmm - how about Testy Tasmanians for Telling Tall Tales about Trees n Stuff (TTTTTTnS). I’ll round up a few of our busiest academics from the Retro Cafe and rustle up some whistleblowers and ‘ave a quizz night Direct Action - Down with the Government - meeting down the pub. That’ll show ‘em. Particularly if I can drag a few Legislative Councillors away from their second or third job to attend (wont scare them away with any talk of relevancy). Then, to cap off a great night of talking about Trees n Stuff, we’ll get in a few fire-dancing, drum beating types and commune with a pint of Guiness and a puff of the other stuff (part of our ‘n Stuff’ ideology) before retiring to our West Hobart share-houses. Some will have the long drive back up to the Tamar. Perhaps we could car-pool the combi?

Tomas said: “..as intellectually bereft as the assumption that any new ‘Tasmanians for…” group represents any more than their own self interest.”

There’s self interest and there’s enlightened self interest. One use to have a scrap of hope that our Governments were able to differentiate between the two and work for the public interest.

“this decline in western political parties has coincided with the advent of economic rationalist policies that place the individual ahead of society … that places the economic dividend ahead of the social dividend..our Governments now operate under the dogma of corporatism which is a system of thought and action that benefit only a small section of the community.  It serves the narrow self-interest of powerful interest groups who employ an ideology of ‘market forces’ and a narrow definition of (selfish) individualism…”
John Ralston Saul

Yeah….............I THOUGHT you were a bit of an idiot, Tomas, now it’s confirmed!

The notion that an elected government has a mandate to do as it likes during its term is ill informed and simply wrong. 

Moral judgement is all about what you do when no one is watching.  Unfortunately most governments, including Lennon’s, seem to have total confusion between legal and moral boundaries.  In case of Lennon, issues now skirt legal limits regularly and it is most definitely operates in a moral vacuum.  Society would not function for a day if we all lived only by our legal responsibilities.  Precisely because of the inherent power, the breakdown and complete lack of moral leadership by governments is the biggest threat to democracy.  And it is happening in Tasmania. 

It is not governments that hold together the threads of a society but a tapestry of individual relationships, community groups and organisations, and yes even those we don’t like.  Governments supposed to be at the steering wheel, but they tend to overlook that they are not the engine.  This government has taken Tasmania down the path of a very rough road, and the majority on the back seats have a right to question this direction and voice their concern about the destination it leads to, particularly when they strongly believe that it might be at the bottom of a cliff.  Even if you agree with every single decisions of this government, you must realise that those same decisions have polarised the Tasmanian community.

Of course, the intellectually lazy response is to label anyone attending this meeting a misinformed tree hugging greenie.  And it did not take long now did it.  The point the labellers are missing beyond the complete meaninglessness of the label it self, is that more and more people who used to be on their side are now proud of that label, because it is the only one left with some form of moral integrity and meaning.  What does it really mean to be a Labour or Liberal supporter in this state? 

If this Island is in desperate need of yet another community based group today, this is surely the one!

I know a group that would be proud to have you as a member Tomas:
Tasmanians Obsessed with Moronic Antiquated Stereotypes

You really do need to get out more Tomas!  Your ridiculous stereotypes just show how limited your interactions with people must be.  Do you think we’re all sitting here at our computers puffing on joints, wiping the dreadlocks out of our eyes, fresh back from our morning tree hugging labyrinth walking chanting toning incense burning sessions?  Grow up!

Was it the Queensland Govt that had the infamous ‘tea trolley’?
To get around the FOI Act and open Government principles, a tea trolley was heaped up with every document or report the Government wanted to keep away from the great unwashed, then the tea trolley was wheeled in and out of the Cabinet room while the Ministers were meeting.

This apparently made the documents exempt from FOI as they were deemed to have been ‘considered by Cabinet’, and under the rules became a confidential Cabinet document and exempt from FOI.

Apparently it became a notoriously funny sight: A tea trolley laden with documents was trundled down the corridor and into the Cabinet room by a clerk, who did a circuit of the room and a minute later the trolley reappeared in the corridor and trundled off in the direction of document storage.

Hmm, on second thoughts, it sounds very Tasmanian…

I wanted to join “Tasmanians for a Better Future” but I couldn’t find a contact officer until Michael Kent came out of the closet. Unfortunately that was after the election and it was all too late!

The Exclusive Brethren was my second choice but ditto with the contact officer. The closest I came was a butcher at Scottsdale but I shop at Huonville (it has better meat than Salamanca and West Hobart).

I tried to find other protest groups but my blinkers impaired my sight.

Tomas, tomas, tomas.
I have had the dubious privilege of living in a great many places and you are correct, none of them have had the great number and variety of “groups” that exist in this state.
Mind you, none of those places have had the overwhelming stench of corruption that pervades almost all avenues of public life, eminating from a relationship between one industry and government. In none of them had that relationship become so toxic to the public sphere that business was cowered in silence as it is in this state.
I submit that the toxic state of our public sphere is the very reason for the large number of interest and protest groups. Your failure to recognise this suggests that either a: you are not quite as smart as you keep telling us you are, or b: your understanding of the reality of life in this state is being undermined by the woodsmoke between your perch in your lofty tower and life on the ground.

Re #3. Gee Tomas you should take your show on the road. That is….if you want to go broke. Cause your about as original as an indonesian rolex and as about as funny as a life-be in-it T-shirt at a funeral.

Looks like i have to remind tommy of a few facts like the mill would never have passed the r.p.d.c guidelines .The mill will stink up the Tamar valley BAD.The native forrest will be decimated and replaced with plantations after being aerial sprayed with deadly cancer causing hormone suppressing birth defecting chemecals wich end up in our drinking water FACT. Perhaps tommy should go to the meeting he might be able to make the majority of tasmanians forget about the above facts with some of his intelegent debate see you there tommy.

In breaking news, TTTTTTnS Director and Spokesperson said “I am delighted with the initial response to the formation of our group and hereby demand that the Government cede authority to my (sorry, our) every whim” Tomas continued “It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that the majority of Tasmanians shouldn’t be allowed to elect in a Government to govern, that is clearly not what the earth mother goddess planned” He continued “In fact, TTTTTTnS will show some real leadership here and insist that every one of these so-called Tasmanian groups should come under my (sorry, our) enlightened banner, ‘Tasmanians for Stuff’.” The inaugral Director and Spokesperson for TFS agreed “I applaud the actions of TTTTTTnS in consolidating rage amongst a minority of Tasmanians. The first act of TFS will be to officially move that any opposing voice to TFS be branded immoral, unethical and wrong-headed. Do I have a seconder?”

What can one say?! 

As always, brilliantly put (13).  Such enlightened and elegantly framed comment, packed full of wit, insight and cutting edge satire has completely mesmerised … a singular audience.

The unwashed tree hugging greenie mob would be in owe of the giant that produces such sublime quality work, accept that not one of them actually gives a figs leaf about the crap that bounces around between those ears echoing faint little pitter patter of “lib lab lib lab lib lab”, managing a painful escape now and then via a tight little opening as a pungent tocsin filled little brain fart! 

Disrespect for other people’s point of view on TT knows no bounds!  If one can not defend or argue a point, lets mock, right? Much cheaper, easier and produces much better returns on the self adulation matrix.

Ahhhh, I feel so much better now, I need a smoke!

Debate the facts tommy you nerd.

And just WHERE is your full of powder puff and stuff it all group Thomas? Maybe it’s so small it’s held in Thumbelina’s room? Is it headed by HR fluff ‘N stuff and supported by the 40 odd lolly pop supporters? 

It’s a sad state of affairs when there is so little government representation for the people that they have to represent themselves. But what a representation it is becoming.

It is impossible to stop the momentum of a river once each drop of pure water has been collected and the flood gates are open. And the cracks are widening everyday.

Minutes of the inaugural meeting of the T.O.M.A.S group.

Attendance:  Tomas Rignoli
Apologies: John Herbert

Meeting opened 7.30
Elected president: Tomas Rignoli
All other positions vacant

Agenda item 1
Group Objectives
T.O.M.A.S group to promote and promalgate antiquated moronic stereotypes through anonymous postings to web sites.  Tomas Rignoli reported that this was already underway and he had been doing his utmost to promote the views and objectives of the group.  He reported that John Herbert had also been active in this way.

Agenda item 2
Membership drive
Tomas reported that he had been actively seeking new members but there appeared to be little interest.  Group was seen as being out of date and pointless.  Tomas to continue as membership coordinater until further notice.

Agenda item 3
Presentation of Awards of “Most Active and Committed Member” and “Life Member” 
Tomas Rignoli presented and then accepted the awards on his own behalf saying he was very proud to be the recipient of such an honour and he took himself in hand and congratulated himself loudly and firmly.  He reported that the awards would be put on proud display with his many many other battery operated and novelty trophies.

Meeting closed 7.39

#17, Nelly, thank you - I enjoyed the awards ceremony at T.O.M.A.S., but I was disapointed a bit with the size of the trophy.  But obvioulsy the red rag to a bull types missed my point that democracy is alive and well in Tasmania and we are massively represented by several tiers of government as well as the explosion of “Tasmanians for…” groups. I would wish that individuals could sift through the difference between not agreeing with a duly (and well) elected Government, even if it is run by a bit of a bully, as opposed to all these ridiculous cries of entrenched corruption, illegality and evil doing. Tom above points to a polarization of the community - well, this cuts both ways. The professional (Greens, WIlderness Society) and amateur opposers and mud-throwers have as much to do with this as the thuggish behaviour of the Labor administration. The ‘professionals’ in the Greens political movement have as much to gain from this continual ‘us and them’ mentality as anyone else, and I have been alert to the issues has been coopted for political gain. That the amateur branch of this movement don’t get that they are being manipulated, is a sad reflection of the divisions Tasmanian society has now been driven into. Where are the conciliatory voices? Where is the give-and-take of political compromise that traditional politics has relied on previously? Where are the statesmen and women that could drive some social cohesion. It’s just not there. I hope the meeting goes well tomorrow - I am sure the preachers and converted will be happy with the proceedings - but where is the attempt to facilitate some understanding and compromise between the warring classes of today’s society? Now some sort of Tasmanians for understanding your fellow Tasmanian meeting is something I would turn up for, but I am not going to hold my breath.

Oh, Tomas. be careful lest you fall from the high moral ground through losing your balance!

The role of a good government is to unite society and provide justice. Disparate groups arise when governments fail this basic tenet. Of course, governments throughout history usually become dictatorial when those plebs wonder “what the hell is going on” and question the powers behind the throne.

Do not point at the people for the failings of the masters.

>Where are the conciliatory voices?
>Where is the give-and-take of political
>compromise that traditional politics has
>relied on previously? Where are the
>statesmen and women that could drive some
>social cohesion?

One of your better questions, Tomas. And these people are around [IMHO]. Regrettably, even statesmen and women run the risk of getting their teeth kicked in.